Books by Howard Zinn
1. In 1993, you suggested that the middle class - which you referred to as
the expendable Attica prison guard class - is beginning to feel the crunch
and that we may be moving toward an "enormous nationwide movement of
rebellion." In 1997 do you see any more visible signs of this movement of
rebellion?Howard Zinn: People who make predictions should never give a time-table, so they can never be proved wrong, and can say: "Just wait!" (If the weather people would only say: "It will rain" -- and not say when, we would never find them wrong.) I don't know when (or even if) there will be "an enormous nationwide movement of rebellion," but I think there's a good chance of it not too long into the future. And yes, there are growing signs of it: the disaffection from the major political parties as shown in the increasing absence from the polls, and deepening lack of enthusiasm among those who go to the polls -- indeed, public opinion surveys since 1988 show a majority would welcome a new independent political force in the country. Also, the greater consciousness today of the growing inequality of income and wealth -- a growing "class consciousness" even if people mostly would not put it in that language. The new welfare, crime, budget legislation will exacerbate the disparity in income, drive more people into desperation, put more people in prison, lead to more violence and drugs and alienation in the country. This doesn't necessarily lead to a new social movement --it could lead to something akin to Fascism, or just to a continuing sickness in the society -- but it does create possibilities for a new social movement if the thousands of local groups around the country now working on various social justice issues would unite their efforts. And the growing energy of the labor movement, with new leadership, more multi-racial membership (never has the labor movement had more non-white people in it) shows great possibilities. The huge turnouts for the Million Man March and the Stand for Children campaign are signs of dissatisfaction and desire to do something.
2. Granted that groups such as the New Party actively mount worthwhile
campaigns, we would agree with you that "the revolution will not take place
at the polls by political means." What specific means do you feel the
activist citizen can currently pursue to bring about change?
Howard Zinn: An activist citizen can join in whatever activity is going on in his/her community, join whatever organization is doing things most congenial to him/her, support solidarity actions, such as community people giving support to labor struggles in their area. (In Boston, Jobs For Justice, along with UNITE, the garment workers union, organized community support for immigrant women workers in a curtain factory and won a victory. In Tallahassee, Florida, when I was there recently, students and other people in the community were joining in a campaign by the United Farm Workers to organize a nearby mushroom factory where conditions were very bad.) And the political groups -- the New Party, the Green Party, the Alliance for Democracy, the Labor Party -- all small, struggling, but determined to grow, all need help. An activist citizen should be reading the newspapers, bad as they are, and also reading alternative materials, and writing letters to the newspapers to give their readers the benefit of the alternative information.
3. With radical groups splintered into factions, do you see any way that
people could join or create a single organization to develop a unified force?
Howard Zinn: Radical groups have always splintered, but at certain times critical issues which affected everyone have brought them together, even temporarily and fitfully, as did the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement. In our time, I think the one issue that can unify the black movement, women's movement, labor movement, environmental movement is the issue of the distribution of wealth, the use of the nation's enormous resources. Every one of these groups has a grievance which could be met with a tumultuous change in priorities for using the national wealth: black people need jobs, housing; women need child care, maternity leave; environmental groups need clean-up funds; everyone needs a job guarantee and free health care paid out of general taxation. Everyone needs the hundreds of billions from the military budget and from the swollen bank accounts of the super-rich.
Howard Zinn: I just gave it!
Howard Zinn: We can learn from movements in every era -- from the abolitionist movement, the Populist movement, from the labor movement, from the IWW and Socialist Party at the turn of the, from the movements of the Thirties in the workplace and in the neighborhoods, and from the various movements of the Sixties. For instance, the Populists and the Socialists created huge educational networks, lecturers, local newspapers. The IWW showed the advantages of solidarity, crossing all lines of race, national origin, to support one another. SNCC and the women's movement showed the possibilities of grass-roots organization without centralized control and charismatic great leaders. The Farm Workers showed the efficacy of national boycotts.
6. As a person who served in the military in World War II, in the civil
rights movement, and in academia, what has been the process by which you've
been able to free yourself from the usual blinders and come to an
understanding of what's really going on?
Howard Zinn: I went to the library! When people ask me, after I've talked about the perfidy of the mass media, where to get information, I say: go to the library, read books. Also, look for alternative publications, that have information you can't get elsewhere. You want information on Latin America. There is NACLA (North American Council on Latin America). You want stuff on the war economy, there is the Defense Monitor in D.C. On economics, the Economic Policy Institute in DC, the magazine Dollars & Sense out of Somerville. But of course, reading is not enough. You have to get involved in actions -- and that's where people are most intensely educated.
7. Do you believe that black activists can or will join with other
minorities to complete the civil rights revolution?
Howard Zinn: I don't know if they will. I know they have to. I know no movement in this country can succeed without African-Americans, Latinos, Native Americans -- without all of them and everyone else forming a movement along fundamentally class lines, while keeping race and gender grievances to the fore.
8. Can the move towards ethnic enclaves be used as a divide-and-conquer
strategy by the ruling elite?
Howard Zinn: It always has been and can be. But that's our responsibility, not to let race and ethnicity divide us from one another. Black, white, brown, yellow, chartreuse, all have something in common unless they are part of the super-rich power elite.
9. What do you consider required reading for every citizen?
Howard Zinn: Read The Nation, In These Times, Dollars and Sense, Z Magazine, The Progressive. Read Noam Chomsky's books on foreign policy, Douglas Dowd on economic issues, Vincent Harding and Cornel West on race issues, Frances Piven and Richard Cloward on class issues.
10. Are there other areas that we haven't touched on that you feel are particularly important?
Howard Zinn: I forgot, the Internet, though it is now mostly used by people with
resources, can be a good way to communicate with one another, and quickly.
Last summer, when Mumia Abu Jamal faced execution, thousands of messages
were sent over the Internet and helped mobilize people and played a role, I
think, in giving his case more time.
Books by Howard Zinn