CHARLIE ROSE:  Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran, is in New 
York, and he spoke at the United Nations at the Nuclear Nonproliferation 
Treaty review.  

       MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD (via translator):  By enjoying special 
privileges in the highest global decision-making bodies in the IEAE certain 
nuclear weapons states widely exploit the platforms against non-nuclear 
weapons states contrary to the spirit of the NPT.  
       This unjust practice repeated over and over has turned into a 
pattern.  So far none of the non-nuclear weapon states have ever been able 
to exercise their inalienable and legal right to develop the peaceful use 
of nuclear energy without facing the pressure and threat at some level.  


	CHARLIE ROSE:  Also addressing the United States conference today, the 
Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton.  


president offered the same tired, false, and sometimes wild accusations 
against the United States and other parties that the conference.  

	But thatís not surprising.  As you all heard this morning, Iran will 
do whatever it can to divert attention from its own record and to attempt 
to evade accountability.  

	Ultimately, however, we will all be judged not for our words but for 
our actions, and we will all be measured not by how assertively we claim 
our rights but by how faithfully we uphold our responsibilities.  And as 
the secretary general said in this regard, the onus is on Iran, and so far 
it has failed to meet its burden.  


	CHARLIE ROSE:  Late this afternoon I sat down with the president of 
Iran with a conversation not only with the nuclear issue but also about the 
relationship between President Obama and President Ahmadinejad and how he 
sees the future of that relationship.  Here is the conversation.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  What is the status today of the agreement that Iran 
will send uranium out of the country to Turkey?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD (via translator):  Let me give you a short history 
of an issue on my mind here that also involves our discussion.  According 
to the rules of IAEA, all member states must give other member states, 
those who possess the fuel and the technology for fuel production.  This 
has to be done without any preconditions.  

	Now, we havenít had a reactor in Tehran that develops medical isotopes 
that basically meets the needs of 800,000 patients in Iran.  It meets to 
the grade level of 20 percent, a fission grade level of 20 percent.

	Now our fuel is almost ending.  And so we requested the IAEA to 
provide us with some more fuel.  According to the regulations of the IAEA 
they have to provide that fuel to us and get paid by us.  The IAEA instead 
of sending out requests to purchase the fuel to all countries decided to 
only send the request to two member states, the United States and Russia.

	And acting against the spirit of the IAEA, they said that they will 
give the 20 percent fuel, but in return demand that Iran give a lower 
enriched grade fuel to countries abroad as an exchange.  And we said very 

	And then negotiations happened and they were moving forward.  But then 
some demands were set in place that were not right.  We are the ones that 
want to buy the fuel.  We have to have conditions, not those who want to 
sell it, because those who want to sell it have to provide the fuel 
basically within the framework of the NPT regulations without any 

	And they came and said they want an exchange and fuel, and we said 
sure enough we can do that.  But then later on they came and said we want 
Iranís enriched uranium to be bought outside so that Iran moves farther 
from the ability to build a nuclear bomb.  

	Once that statement was made the people in Iran felt there was 
insincerity involved and there is something not quite fair about the 
process.  And they reacted and prevented the process from moving forward. 

	Now today we wish to continue with talks but the agreement that is 
arrived at has to be mutual, based on mutual exchange.  We are agreeing to 
have an exchange, and we had agreed to it beforehand as well, but, again, 
it has to be a mutual agreement in order to carry out an exchange, not for 
one group to say itís my way or the --  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  So what my understanding was that a representative of 
your government signed the agreement, your negotiator, for 1,200 kilograms 
to leave Iran by January 15th to go to Russia.  What happened?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Every paper signed by a representative of Iran 
is acceptable by the Iranian government wherever in the world it was 
signed.  But there was no agreement that was signed.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  So you want to today present a counterproposal to 
Russia and the United States and the IAEA.  Whatís that counterproposal?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  We believe we can find a middle ground.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  What is the middle ground?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  We have certain proposals that we have given to 
some parties involved.  Now we have to talk about it and decide on the 
details.  I mean after all, when I speak of an agreement weíre speaking of 
two parties, and both parties have to agree.  

	Now, some people want to unilaterally impose an agreement on the 
other.  That canít happen.  Thatís where problems arise.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  They want to have a negotiation, they want to have a 
conversation, they want to move the thing forward.  And people in Iran tell 
me that you want to move it forward.  You have opposition in your country, 
but that you would like to see this idea move forward.  Is that correct?

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Yes, and I agree that this should be done.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  So how would you do it?  Tell us what you would do.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  You see, we agree to send 3.5 percent enriched 
feel to receive 20 percent and pay for it, for the 20 percent.  But there 
are some technical details that require the technicians and those who are 
experts in the field to sit down and talk about and resolve.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Well, has anyone responded to your counterproposal?  
Where does it stand?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Some have said very to sit down and reengage in 
talks.  Thereís no other way but to talk, of course.  

	Iíd like to bring your attention to the fact that we are able to 
produce 20 percent grade fuel.  We donít exactly need it in that sense, but 
we agree to accept the exchange idea to engage in cooperation as 
introduction for longer cooperation.  

	Itís quite interesting -- some have told us that either have you to 
engage in an agreement in trade with us or weíll sanction you.  Accept the 
exchange or weíll sanction you.  Is this the new world order thatís in 

	We happen to have 20 percent enriched fuel and weíre producing it 
within the legal framework of international law.  And itís only based on 
the spirit of cooperation that we agreed to the provision to have an 
exchange.  Now, of course, after we lost hope, we started the production of 
the 20 percent.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Hereís what Secretary Clinton said, "Iran is the only 
country represented in the hall that had been found by the IAEA board of 
governors to be currently in noncompliance with its nuclear safeguard 
obligations, the only one.  

	It has defied the U.N. Security Council and the IAEA and placed the 
future of the nonproliferation regime in jeopardy.  And that is why it is 
facing increasing isolation and pressure from the international community.  
But Iran will not succeed in its efforts to divert and divide.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Again, who said this?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Secretary Clinton.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Oh, Mrs. Clinton.  Well, Mrs. Clinton says a lot 
of things.  Do I have to have a comment on every statement she makes?  

	Let it be just said that Iran has been the country that has cooperated 
the most with the IAEA.  She cannot provide some documents and evidence 
that we have not carried our obligations within the framework of the 

	We have continued to cooperate with the agency within the legal 
framework and we have responded to every set of questions they have put to 
us, and we have actually received a response back from the IAEA.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  They said you have not complied and not allowed them 
access to see scientists.  You have not answered the questions.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  This is not the case.  The agency makes the 
claim which is unlawful.  Based on its own regulations, no member state can 
present an allegation against another member state.  

	The agency sends a series of six official, formal written questions to 
Iran.  Iran responded to all six questions and then received sort of a 
receipt from the IAEA that they respond to.

	Now the IAEA is in fact asking us to respond to the undocumented 
allegations presented by the U.S. administration, by the U.S. government.  
That is far beyond the framework of the IAEA.  We have never committed to 
the agency that any member state that brings an allegation forward has to 
be responded to.  And therefore, hence, thereís no violation.  

	It is the U.S. government, by the way, mind you, that has had the 
largest numbers of violations of IAEA rules.  The U.S. government has 
violated this law by alleging that Iran has some activities that are 
illegal.  But the director general himself cannot speak unlawfully within 
the framework of the IAEA.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  It was the IAEA, not the United States, that suggested 
you were not in compliance with their request.  So what I want to do in 
this conversation is understand what the president of Iran would do and 
what he would like to see done to facilitate nonproliferation and 
facilitate Iran sending uranium outside of the country to be enriched.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  If we did that, do you think all the problems 
would be resolved?  In other words, if Iran sends uranium abroad for 
enrichment and then it returns, do you think all the problems will be 
resolved including the world problems around us?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Certainly not.

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Itís clear Clinton is an enemy of Iran.  Mrs. 
Clinton is an enemy of Iran, itís clear from the position she takes.  She 
has always threatened Iran, and the agency does not have any evidence 
suggesting Iran has deviated from the legal framework of the IAEA, no 

	This is a simple political move under political pressure.  I have said 
that over and over again.

	Mr. Charlie Rose, if we want to resolve this problem we need to find 
the root cause of it.  We can make a lot of political noise, we cannot 
really pose these kinds of political pressures.  We must follow justice and 

	We want to prevent proliferation.  We have to ask ourselves, who are 
those who proliferate?  The very states that possess nuclear weapons, and 
you have to have those weapons to proliferate it.  If we want to stop 
proliferations, the answer is quite simple.  Those who possess the bomb 
have to eradicate it so that proliferation stops.  Where else are the bombs 
being exported around the world from?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  The world worries about Iran having the bomb because 
they think it will set off a proliferation in the region, and thatís 
against everybodyís interest.  The world would like to convince you that 
Iran should not want to have the bomb because itís not in the interest of 

	The president would like to say to you that they made an agreement 
with Russia to reduce the number of bombs, you know, and that the president 
is trying to set in motion nonproliferation and is asking you to engage in 

	You have said, you have said "We donít want the bomb."  Correct?  
Categorically you have said Iran does not want the bomb.  Correct?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Mr. Rose, if we want to understand the truth, we 
have to look at it fairly.  All our nuclear activities are being watched by 
cameras installed by the IAEA, all our nuclear facilities.  

	Now, show me one nuclear facility in the United States that comes 
under the watch of the IAEA cameras.  The IAEA has no inspection over these 
facilities in the United States.  

	The United States and Russia have had discussions.  Whoís going to 
supervise it and make sure thatís carried out?  What independent, 
verifiable regime is out there to watch it happen?  They themselves are 
agreeing to do a certain number of things.  Perhaps there should be an 
independent boy that can verify what they do.

	We at the end of the day welcome world nonproliferation and we welcome 
halting proliferation and we have announced we are post-proliferation.  We 
have carried out our legal duties.  What else do we need to do?  

	We are prepared to show the path towards disarmament and we are 
prepared to sit down and give political assistance, proposals as to how the 
United States and other nuclear countries who possess the nuclear bomb can 
disarm.  Once they disarm, the solution is there, itís finished.
	How convenient that those who possess a bomb are not considered a 
threat, but those who donít have a bomb but may possibly have a bomb in the 
future are considered a major threat.  This is a paradox in and of itself.  
No one can accept this kind of logic.  The international community cannot.

	And the international community is not summarized by being just the 
United States and the allies.  There are over 100 NPT or G8 member states 
who have supported Iranís position.  Are they not members of the 
international community?  

	You see, we oppose the spirit of the word that come American 
politicians thinking that they represent the world, that whatever they say 
is what the world thinks.  This is not the case.  

	You heard my speech today.  Some people got up and left.  Those who 
speak of themselves as representatives of the international community, they 
were a minority, an absolute minority.  And they like to think of 
themselves as the international community.  

	If we want to fix the world, we have to act fairly.  And to be fair 
and just those who have bombs have to put them aside.  Thatís the end of 
the story.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  So you are saying the test --

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  By alleging Iran has some problems, Americaís 
problems arenít resolved.  Just alleging that Iran has problem is not going 
to resolve Mrs. Clintonís problems for her.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  With respect to my question, you categorically say that 
Iran does not want either nuclear weapons or the capacity to make weapons, 
categorically, under no circumstance.  Youíve also said itís against the -- 

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Yes, exactly so.  I have said it categorically.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  And itís against your religion, yes?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Yes.  Yes.  And it also against our culture and 
against our beliefs.  And we just simply cannot accept to have nuclear 

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Then why is it so hard to cooperate with the IAEA if 
that is the principle that you act on.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  In our eyes weíre cooperating.  Who said weíre 

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Not in their eyes.  The IAEA --

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  The IAEA comes under pressures.  What youíre 
saying is because the IAEA comes under the pressure of the United States.  
They say that themselves.  Itís quite obvious if you read what comes out of 
it.  How come they donít produce anything against the United States 
arsenal?  Itís clear -- 

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You doubt the integrity of Mr. Baradei.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  No, not at all.

	CHARLIE ROSE:  He was a director of the IAEA.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  It doesnít matter who the position or what the 
position is.  It doesnít mean just because youíre the director general of 
the IAEA that you canít make mistakes.  Itís quite clear you can make 

	The question posed is quite clear.  The United States has 10,000 
nuclear warheads.  Is the United States a threat, or is Iran?  Which one is 
actually the threat?  They say Iran may in the future produce bombs, hence 
it is a threat therefore sanctions are in order.  But a country that 
possesses thousands of nuclear warheads and has used nuclear weapons in the 
past and is threatening to use them again now today is not considered a 

	This is a political position.  Itís not a fair, legal, reasonable 
position.  Itís quite clear itís all politics.

	And just weaving this into a thick story is not going help the IAEA.  
Itís quite clear where the threat comes from.  It comes from the country 
that possesses nuclear bomb.  The country that possesses it is a threat.  
Itís quite obvious.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Whatís quite obvious is thereís not a level trust 
between your government and President Obamaís government.  There is not a 
level of trust.  

	So I ask you this question, what can be done to create a level of 
trust?  Because Iran is a great nation.  The United States is a great 
nation.  Iran has considerable influence in the world.  The United States 
has considerable influence.  Where is the trust and how do you get the 

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  I agree with you.  There is no level of trust.  
Now this goes back to the history of relations between the two countries.  
I donít want to however ponder over history.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Weíve discussed it before.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Our people remember the coup in 1953, for 
example, or the support of the Shah and the dictatorship that went on 
before the revolution.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  And the Americans remember the hostage taking.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  I donít want to go back to history.  

	Under the Bush administration we tried to talk as well as under Mr. 
Obamaís administration.  And we do believe trust is built through talks and 
not by clashing and by fighting.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  So take a step forward, how you would -- 

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Allow me.  Just allow me.  Iím going take a step 
forward and say what you have in mind.  

	When Mr. Obama was elected I sent him a congratulatory note.  That was 
a very big step.  It was an opportunity that could have responded to in 
order to pave the way for talks.  He didnít respond to the note.  

	When the elections happened in Iran, Mr. Obama supported the people 
who were setting cars on fire in the streets.  Now that wasnít a good 

	Last year when I was visiting New York I said that I was ready to talk 
with Mr. Obama.  But he didnít respond.  

	It seems to me that the problem comes from inside America.  If you can 
resolve the problem coming from inside America, the problem between Iran 
and the United States will be resolved quickly.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Say that again.  Iím sorry, say that again.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  I think thereís a problem within the -- inside 
the U.S. government, the politicians, the statesmen, that somehow prevents 
the relations between Iran and the United States to improve.  Once that 
problem is resolved within the United States the problems between the two 
countries will be removed.  

	There are a group of radicals in the United States who see their 
interest in conflicts.  

	Now allow me -- allow me, if you may, please.  I think that with Mr. 
Obama in office the United States has a great opportunity in its hands, 
perhaps a historical opportunity, perhaps even the last historical 
opportunity so that the United States starts improving its relationship 
with the world.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  There is some indication the United States is improving 
the relations with the world.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  The United States has to address its problems in 
Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, and Afghanistan as well as in Iran.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Yes, but you have to be a positive contributing factor 
too, a positive contributing factor.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  We have given Mr. Obama plenty of opportunities.  
But it seems to me that thereís a group that wants Mr. Obama to reach a 
point where instead of cooperating with Iran he starts entering resolutions 
condemning Iran.  

	Mr. Rose, Iím telling you as a friend, just a friendly conference here 
weíre having.  Iím familiar with the world affairs and so are you.  Mr. 
Obama is the biggest and the only and the last opportunity America has for 

	Mr. Obama came with the idea of change, with the motto to change, to 
build and create change.  Where can he built the change, where?  What 
corners of the world?  In Iraq, in Afghanistan -- 

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Mr. Obama went to Cairo and made a message about the 
world, and he reached out to the Islamic world.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Allow me, please.  Mr. Charlie Rose, please.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Yes, go ahead.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Mr. Charlie Rose, things are not resolved with 
one speech.  A speech has to lead to action -- action.  

	Mr. Obama said that "I want to create change."  And this change must 
present itself, must show itself in Iraq.  It must show and happen in 
Afghanistan.  It must show and happen in Palestine.  It must show with 
regards to Iran.  

	Now, please pay attention.  Iím trying to help here.  Iím trying to 
help you.  Iím trying to help America here.  Those who are behind the 
scenes or within the U.S. administration, in the Obama administration, are 
moving things in a direction which will make Mr. Obama to take radical 
positions especially with respect to Iran.  

	Some of the permanent members of the U.N. Security Council are also 
doing the same thing, leading Mr. Obama to a position that is irreversible, 
vis-a-vis Iran.

	As soon as Mr. Obama enters into a series of behaviors that resemble 
Mr. Bushís behaviors, two things will happen.  First, Mr. Obamaís time is 
over.  In other words, when Mr. Obama becomes radical in his behavior, what 
that means is thereís no change and therefore heís been defeated.  Heís 
failed.  And his presidential term will be not useful.

	Secondly, Americaís most important historical opportunity will be lost 
and America will no longer be able to improve itself in the world.  Iím 
saying as a person who sympathizes, who is just expressing what he sees.  
Theyíre constantly instigating.  Over and over again I said Iím ready to 
speak with Mr. Obama.  Well, what happened?  Heís never responded.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Can you clarify one historical point to me.  Did 
President Obama send a letter to the supreme leader of Iran?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  You should ask that from Mr. Obama.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Well, what do you know?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  You and I should speak about our own affairs.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  I asked you an honest and sincere question, how do you 
build trust?  And your answer had to do with accusing the United States of 
things and saying this was the last chance for the United States as a 
nation.  Itís not.  The United States is the longest democracy in history.  
Itís not the last chance.  President Obama is part of the continuum of 
democratically elected presidents which will continue after him.

	But youíre important, and this is a time for trust to be done, and it 
has to have a give and take.  Iím asking you what you want the president to 
do and what youíre prepared to do in response.  Itís that simple.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Can you tell me what have they given us so far 
for us to give something back?  What have they given us so far?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Theyíve made offers to --  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  What offers?  What offers?  Can you tell me?  
Specify?  Youíre saying we should get something to give something.  What 
have they given us so far?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  What have you given them?

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Are our eastern borders any safer today?  No.  
U.S. forces have increased in number in Afghanistan.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Do you fear --

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Are our western borders any safer today?  The 
Americans are in Iraq still.  

	Is the Persian Gulf now free of American troops?  Exactly what is it 
they have given us?  Youíre a member of the media.  You must know.  What 
have they given us and what in return are they expecting?  They havenít 
given us anything?

	CHARLIE ROSE:  They have reached out.  The president has said to you 
he was holding his hand and would you like to unclench -- he said "Iím 
holding my hand out.  Would you like to unclench your fist and shake 
hands?"  Thatís what he asked.  And so --

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  These are just words, Mr. Rose, just posture.  
Instead of that I sent a message, I sent a written letter, saying Iím truly 
extending my hand to him.  And I sent a message saying weíre prepared to 
cooperate in the following fields that I expressed in the letter.

	So weíve been a step ahead.  Weíre in fact a step ahead.  Nothing has 
been given to Iran accept the hand has been extended.  So?  We extended it 
earlier.  We extended it many times before.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You are concerned about sanctions.  Itís not just the 
United States thatís talking about sanctions.  Itís Europe.  Itís Russia.  
Many people are talking about sanctions.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  With respect, weíre not concerned about the 
sanctions.  Sanctions cannot be implemented.  In the world of free trade, 
what does sanctions mean?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Youíre not worried about sanctions?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  No, weíre not.  Sanctions are unimportant to us.  
Weíre saying that clash is bad, conflict is bad.  Weíre not even speaking 
of sanctions.  Weíre speaking of a world filled with friendship and saying 
this goes against what we want, otherwise there have been three other 
sanction resolutions passed already.  But weíre still alive and going on 
living and going on with our life, and Iím still sitting there despite 
three sanctions.  And it can be a problem.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  And you solidified your support in some cases.  

       Speaking of that, how is your economy today?  
       MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Itís good.  


       MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Yes.  Itís better than the economy here in the 
United States because in the past three years of economic crisis weíve had 
a positive economic growth.  
       The volume of our trade is not anywhere close to the volume of trade 
the United States has.  The volume of your trade is much larger.  But in 
world crisis, in a global crisis when youíre economy was going down, our 
economy was still showing a positive trend, because our economy is based 
indigenous and based on Iranís own internal resources primarily.  Itís not 
based on global resources.  
       So we donít really have a major problem.  We donít worry about 
sanctions either.  Weíre worried that the opportunity for creating a better 
world and world peace are getting lost.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  But why are you attacking the United States all the 
time, then?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Weíre defending.  


	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Weíre constantly defending ourselves.  Mr. Bush, 
how many threats, and we kept defending ourselves.  When exactly have 
attacked --  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Mr. Bush is no longer president. 

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Allow me, Mr. Charlie Rose.  Are there Iranian 
forces around U.S. borders or are there American troops around Iran 

	CHARLIE ROSE:  There are American troops --

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Are we the ones who are attacking?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Not attacking Iran.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Where have we attacked?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Are Americans troops attacking Iran?  Are American 
troops attacking Iran?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Allow me.  Mr. Bush four times officially 
threatened Iran with a military attack, four times.  And the policy was 
regime change in Iran.  He said it officially many times.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  But Mr. Bush is no longer president.  You need so stop 
suggesting that thereís no difference between President Obama and President 
Bush.  You say that all the time.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Iím saying in fact thereís a difference between 
them.  Iím saying there is a difference.  Since Mr. Obama assumed office we 
have welcomed him and said weíre ready to help him.  

	If Mr. Obama wants to create change, weíre ready to help.  We said in 
Iraq if you want to change weíre ready to help.  We said in Afghanistan, if 
you want change, weíre ready to help.  We said in Palestine weíll help.

	Mr. Obama did not make any changes in Iraq policy.  He probably 
doesnít need our help in Iraq, I suppose.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  No, no.  He does.

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  I mean, if somebody doesnít need your help, you 
insist on giving it to them?  You canít insist on it.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  The possibilities of cooperation between Iran and the 
United States would make the world a better place.  A better place --

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  I accept that.  I agree.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  And the United States is saying please, Mr. President, 
donít engage in developing the capacity to have nuclear weapons, or -- 

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Are you saying that or is the United States 
saying that? 

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Am I saying what?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Are you saying Iran should not increase its 
ability to develop nuclear weapons or is the U.S. government saying that?

	CHARLIE ROSE:  I think thatís the U.S. government --

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Why would we want nuclear weapons.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  I know, but you need to convince the world.  You need 
to convince the Russians, the international energy agency, the Turks, you 
need to convince the Europeans, and you need to convince the Chinese.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Mr. Charlie Rose, do you see the world as the 
summary of these few countries?  Thatís wrong.  Just for five countries to 
call themselves the owners of the world is wrong in the first place.  We 
donít even believe in that.  This is a major difference we have with that 
and they have to accept that.  

	They have so sit and talk with us about it.  We canít believe that the 
world is summed up by five states.  The rest of the world has issued 
declarations in our favor.  If we go on like this, nothingís resolved.  

	Where do Americaís problems lie?  Let me just set your mind -- I want 
to give your mind some rest here.  We are opposed to the bomb, the nuclear 
bomb, and we will not build it.  

	If we want to build it, we have the guts to say it.  Weíre courageous 
enough to say it, because weíre not afraid of anyone.  If we want to have 
the bomb, weíll come and tell everyone he want to build it.  Weíre not 
afraid of anyone if we want to make it.  Whoís there to be afraid of?  

	So when we say we donít want it, we donít want it.  They want to 
engage in political games, and the agency, this, that.  Theyíre not going 
to resolve anything.  No, letís settle this.  This is not going resolve 

	Mrs. Clinton might make 2,000 more speeches.  Thatís not going to 
resolve anything.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  But your speech --

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Iran is not going to be harmed by those 
statements.  Itís America will waste the opportunity.  Exactly how, what 
harm will that bring to Iran? 

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Before you leave -- 

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Itís only made us stronger.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Before you leave New York, present a program to the 
United Nations and the IAEA and the United States and others of, one, your 
commitment not have a nuclear weapon, and then present a program to the 
United States as to how you would like to create trust and credibility, how 
you would like to see the United States develop same kind of relationship 
with Iran that it developed with China.  

	You could do that by reaching out.  The initiative is there.  How do 
you take steps to create an engagement?  You take the initiative.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Weíve given the U.S. government many 
opportunities it didnít want.  The political issues are there.  We know 
that.  Itís called politics.  Theyíve been our enemy 30 years.  Thatís 
nothing new.  We donít care.  

	We think that if they want to get into a level of cooperation with us 
they have to be sincere.  Those who want to carry -- if they want to carry 
double standards, we want to hold the stick over Iranís head and then give 
the carrot out, itís not an issue, not a policy posture that can resolve 
anything.  Itís not a humane policy to begin with.  

	What is humane is based on justice.  Whatever it is, put it on the 
table to discuss.  Sincerely, letís put everything on the table and respect 
each other for a change.  Stop the double standards, because they failed in 
the past.  Itís just a failed way of moving forward.  

	Now, that stick, whether itís going on the IAEA or the U.N. Security 
Council, it doesnít matter.  A stick is a stick.  The name of the stick, it 
doesnít get purified the stick.  

	The U.S. influence in the U.N. Security Council can be used for 
sanctions.  Thatís not going to legitimize anybody.  It can use its 
pressure on to the IAEA for somebody to say something.  Thatís not going to 
resolve the problem.  

	The problemís not going to be resolved.  Youíre asking me to say it.  
Itís not going to be resolve and itís only going exacerbate the problem.  
If the U.S. administration truly seeks to resolve the problem it has to 
bring a change of method, because the current methods have not given any 
answers.  Theyíre defeated methods.  

	I say that the root cause of the problem has to be sought behind the 
scenes of American policymakers.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You had an election.  There will be an anniversary on 
June 12th.  The impression is you have strongly cracked down on the 
opposition in your country, that you have threatened, put some in -- 
arrested.  How do you respond to that?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Mr. Charlie Rose, when you say that this 
perception this has been shaped, you mean among the Iranian people?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Yes.  Yes.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Let me tell you a few things about the Iranian 
people, because I got 25 million votes from them, and Iím the only official 
representative of the Iranian people elected by them.  

	All the main people who were opposed to us are free and walking 
around.  The leaders of the opposition are free in Iran.  Theyíre all free.  
They actually have official positions in Iran and theyíre still holding 
their posts.  
	Sure, there are groups who went on the streets and put cars on fire 
and destroyed building, and the judiciary dealt with them.  Otherwise the 
main opposition groups, my main competitors are all free.  Who ever said 
anything to them?  Has anyone ever confronted them?  Theyíre all free.  

	In Iran, the judicial system carries out its decisions independently.  
If someone goes on the streets and hits people or creates conflict and 
induces conflict, the law will deal them.

	Now, in America if a group of people go on around and break windows 
wonít you not deal with them?  If they set cars on file wonít you not deal 
with them?  Iím sure the police will confront them.  Itís the same there in 

	The judicial system and the law, itís all I independently done, 
carried out when somebody carries enough hands on the street, itís dealt 
with.  Otherwise all the leaders of the opposition were free before the 
elections and after.  Which ones have been arrested?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  With respect, Mr. President, after the election that 
was contested, were the people tortured in prison, and did some people die 
in prison?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  See, these are claims that were made in the 
press.  These claims have to be presented by -- before a court, before a 
judge.  The judicial system receives complaints, and anyone, even if an 
officer of the law has a violation it has to be dealt with, because there 
is law in Iran and it applies to everyone, even the president.  If I were 
to violate the law Iíd have to be dealt with.

	If somebody complained against the prison ward or a prison officer or 
even the judicial system, anything, thereís a judge, there are documents, 
thereís evidence that has to be produced, and then the decisions are made.  

	Itís not our effort to defend anyone or condemn anyone every day.  
Something happens.  The police confronts them and confronts the situation.  
They have to go to court.  The police may be condemned.  Whatever has 
violated the law has to be held accountable.

	But there are claims made that have not been proven yet.  In other 
words, the judge has not accepted the claims that anyoneís been tortured.  
If the judge agrees, accepts that someoneís been tortured in prison, then 
the perpetrator will come before the law.  Itís quite clear.  

	And our judicial system is very independent.  It doesnít come under -- 
the Iranian judicial system is not selected by the president, by the way, 
mind you.  Itís independent of the president.  

	In fact, the managers of our judiciary and his friends were people who were not unlike him in my camp, actually, to tell you the truth.  So they were not about to defend me.  They were kind of independent.  Theyíre still independent.  They didnít belong to any camp.

	So I canít really interfere in what they do.  Our judicial systemís is 
quite different than you have here in the United States.  In Iran itís not 
the president that appoints the judge.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  I understand, and I also am aware of the National 
Security Council having to do with nuclear policy as well.  

	Do you -- is the reform movement that was identified in Iran, in your 
judgment, whatís happened to it?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  What do you mean by the reform movement?  Do you 
mean a party?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Well, I mean the people who voted for Mr. Mousavi, the 
people who voted who were in the streets protesting.  At the time, Iím 
asking a question, at the time, there were lots of people in the streets, 
and people thought this was the decisive moment in Iranian history.  It 
turned out that you clearly have prevailed at this time.  

	Whatís happened to the reform movement?  What did Mr. Mousavi 

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  How many people do you think were in fact out on 
the streets?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  I donít know.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Can you guess?  Can you say how many?

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You tell me.  You live in Tehran.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  You see in Tehran Mr. Mousavi got about two 
million votes.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Two million.  How many did you get?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  In Tehran, two million.  In Tehran, I got about 
two million, too.  So it was close.  

	So two million people come on the streets, how important is that?  We 
already knew the two million didnít vote for me.  You see, Iran is in a 
very good position right now.  The Iranian people donít necessarily operate 
within party groups.  They donít really vote for any party.  

	Iranís system is different from what you have here in the United 
States.  In Iran parties donít define what happens.  People define what 

	In the course of 30 years people have had opportunities to vote, and 
then move on with their lives and are friends.  They donít clash every day 
on the streets.  They live like neighbors.

	And those who didnít vote for me are living their lives and are 
working and are in the bureaucracy and part of the government, theyíre part 
of the organization.  They work and live and have a life.  Itís not the 
case that if they donít vote for me theyíre all going to stand in the 
opposition camp.  

	Iranís situation is very different from a party system.  People are 
people.  They vote.  If they donít win, they go on with their lives.  And 
they still recognize the government thatís there and they can cooperate 
with the government for sure.  

	Sure, there are those that are in opposition.  Every government 
naturally has an opposition.  Theyíre living their lives too.  They send 
declarations out and say things.  It doesnít matter.  Iran is a strong 
country.  Rest assured, itís a strong country.  You should be worried about 
and concerned about America.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Do you fear that war may come?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Who would attack Iran?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  No one, I assume.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  I mean, you canít just assume.  Assumptions 
arenít made in the heavens.  Theyíre made on earth.  Whoís going to -- on 
this earth, whoís going to attack Iran on this planet?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Do you believe Israel -- 




	CHARLIE ROSE:  No.  The United States, no.


	CHARLIE ROSE:  Would Israel attack Iran?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Israel isnít even counted.  It doesnít even 
factor into our equation.  Itís not even counted.  

	So whoís going to attack us?  Thereís no one there to attack us so 
there will be no war.  We donít think about war.  We think about peace.  We 
think about friendships.  We think about cooperation, not about war.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  One step that you would like to see President Obama 
take to make the relationship better?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Let me just first say one sentence about the 
earlier issue that you raised.  If we are not afraid of a threat, it does 
not mean that a threat is not an ugly posture.  The country that threatens 
has done a very ugly thing.  

	Sure, weíre not afraid of it, but when an ugly thing happens, itís 
ugly.  We werenít expecting the Obama administration to threaten us with a 
nuclear attack.  That was a very bad thing to do.  They did.  They did.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  They didnít.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  They did.  If youíre saying they didnít -- OK, 
some didnít and some did.  Letís just say at least some didnít and some 
did, to be fair.  Thatís what Iím saying, itís a double standard.  

	We have said that Mr. Obama didnít need to extend the sanctions 
against Iran.  Those sanctions were of no use to begin with the ones that 
were extended.  It just you know, dirtied the atmosphere, letís say.  

	Mr. Obama when he came to office, we had a conversation with our 
people.  We said letís give Mr. Obama a chance.  Now in Iran people donít 
have much faith with Mr. Obama.  Thereís a lot of distrust and for us the 
task is harder to remove that distrust.  

	Mr. Obama we would say as a proposal should not give into pressures.  
Thatís the one step I would.  When youíre a president, you have to make a 

	CHARLIE ROSE:  May I make a suggestion?

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Weíre ready to take any action.  Weíre ready to 
take any proposal.  Weíll cooperate with him in the region to help resolve 
international issues, but within the framework of respect, they have to 
respect us.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  They respect you.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  And treat us fairly.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  They treat you fairly.  They respect you.  Convince 
them -- convince them that you do not want nuclear weapons.  Convince them.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Who convinces who?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You convince them.

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Theyíre the ones -- theyíre threatening us with 
a nuclear attack.  How on earth can I convince them?  They have a nuclear 
bomb --

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Convince them you donít want nuclear weapons.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  -- they want to drop it on us, how on earth am I 
to convince them?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Convince them.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Weíve given them a chance, in godís name.  They 
can move forward with reforms.  

	Mr. Obamaís policies in Afghanistan can change.  We sympathize.  When 
Afghans lose their lives, when NATO troops lose their lives, it doesnít 
benefit us.  We say every bloodshed in Afghanistan makes it harder there 
and more complicated there.  

	How else, in what language do we have to make this understandable in 
America?  You tell me, maybe you can interpret this for the Americans.  
Weíre saying every day that goes on things are getting worse in 
Afghanistan.  You have to make a decision.  Your policies have to change.  
Your ten-year-old policies there have failed.  

	This is the biggest chance weíre giving.  This is the biggest 
opportunity.  Weíre even willing to show them the way, by the way.  
Anything more?  Whoís ever offered America such a great proposal?  Any 
other country in our position that has been so wronged by America would sit 
aside and just observe Americaís fetters in Afghanistan and rejoice in it.  
We donít.  We donít rejoice in it, because we say human beings should not 
lose their lives.  

	Why is it necessary to go down that way?  Even to say American troops 
or Afghan people, theyíre people.  They are still different, by the way.  
The Afghan people are being killed in their homes while the American troops 
are losing their lives another place.  But a death is a death.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  A death is a death, absolutely right.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Neither group decided to be there and both 
groups are losing their lives.  So weíre giving a good proposal to America 
to show you the way out of Afghanistan.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Can we continue the conversation in Tehran?  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  Definitely.  We welcome you in Tehran any time.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Then weíll continue the conversation there.  

	Thank you, Mr. President.  You have been generous of your time.  We 
have talked many things, and, again, on behalf of the audience of this 
program, thank you once again for taking time to appreciate the opportunity 
and the conflict that exists.  Thank you.  

	MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD:  The opportunities will always be available.  If 
weíre sincere, god will help us.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  From New York City, a conversation with Mahmoud 
Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran.  

	Thank you for joining us.  See you next time.